If we have rubbish politicians, it's our fault.

I constantly hear people whingeing about politicians and how untrustworthy they are. there is an old cliché, which I think is very true that says a country gets the government it deserves. There is the natural proviso that this only applies in those countries where people can change the government. If you don;t like the government, do something about it instead of just being supine and apathetic. All the rights we have in a country like the UK are there because of people who have been prepared to oppose a wrong. No government ever makes a concession until they realise that it will cost them power if they don't. Just look back at political history.

Yes we get what we deserve, In Canada, where I live, most people who don't vote do not feel engaged in the process - the options do not work for them since they feel disconnected from all the parties. People are more likely to vote when someone they actively fear is running so it is not a vote for a candidate but rather fear that the one they oppose might win

The problem lies not with the electorate, although failing to vote doesn't help anyone, but more with the inability NOT to follow the "party line".

We are asked to vote for a politician to represent us, which in itself is a total lie, we are asked to vote in order to follow the "party line" our personal feelings don't enter into it, they "manipulate" a manifesto, present it as their promise to the electorate, and then, after winning the election,they conveniently alter it to suit themselves as which way they think a country should go.

Tha includes ALL PARTIES in ALL COUNTRIES, because if they didn't, what would the "parties" in opposition have to bray about when things are presented ( read that as commited to happen) to the public.

I think there's a danger that these old sayings and clichés ("We get the Government we deserve") gain momentum when there's actually very little to back them up. I would respectfully disagree that we do get the politicians we deserve, the problem in the UK being that there is realistically only a choice of two parties who can form a Government by themselves, Labour and Conservative.

Since Tory Blair (no that's not a spelling mistake) who essentially shifted Labour so far to the right that there's virtually no distinction between the largely self-serving ideals of those two parties, a vote in either direction gets you a sleazebag or several in power and a vote down the middle gets you a coalition (of sleazebags).

I honestly think that to get a fair system, you would have to dismantle the present electoral/voting system altogether and re-build it from scratch (which will never happen) because the present system certainly does not "represent" the electorate in any way, it is a blind, a smokescreen, a foil, whatever you prefer to call it which looks like a democracy, is accepted as one, but actually isn't one.

I can only say what I think, and agree with Jonsey who said that representation is in itself a lie (or words to that effect). If you give people two choices (nominally three) and both will always renége on their promises, you cannot in any way call that representative of an electorate, therefore to call it democracy must also by definition be an outright fable.

The only way to force a collapse of this deceptive system (and it is an organised deception) is for nobody to vote at all (which will also never happen, of course) because that would put them in a position where everyone has clearly shown their lack of confidence and respect for a deception (which is why they make it illegal not to register on the electoral roll, of course, because they know this) and any government formed when nobody voted for it would then be either illegal or an emergency military arrangement, but I don't think we have the guts in this country (the UK) to say effectively "You know what, we're not voting for any lies at all no matter where they come from").

I'd also say that refusing to vote for a lie is as valid a "vote" as going to the Polling Station. It's like being presented with two rapists and voting for which one you prefer, but the thing being raped isn't a person, it's ALL OF US.

I can only say what I think, be as it may, but I'd respectfully disagree with "Guest's" estimation of the true situation.
 

When I was young, full of pis and vinegar, I used to speak along these same lines. I remember well, walking out of the first meeting (of any importance) that I attended, my boss turning to me and uttering, "See how difficult it is to get a dozen or so people to agree on anything."

The word "Democracy" is indeed used all too freely in our political ramblings.

???

Confused.Com 

Confused.com may have the answer............See Google!

Lol, thanks FOH xx

America is having a great awakening. Our problem was that people picked a party based on what they believed in and voted party line. Each year and every year, and not paying attention to what the party was doing. What they didn't realize was that the party they voted for changed. The Democrat party is now socialist and the Republican is now the new Democrat party. We now have in congress those we voted for that do not hold to our beliefs. Even Democrats I know are shocked and what their party has become. A lot of Republicans are still holding to the old party line. But now comes the awakening. We have grassroots movements that are working on both sides of the fence to bring us back to center. The only thing I can suggest, is to stop talking, open your house(for meetings) and do SOMETHNG. I see changes made each day by just one person making one call to one congressman. What one person can do can affect many. You must decide what you can do within the system, and if that is not enough, then change the system.
Miss. Information

Well here in Canada I have found that politicians will fight for you, with usually minimal results..... until their party has the majority, both provincially and federally. We don't have the element of recall here, so once they take the majority they just follow their own agenda, because they can!! I agree that you will never make all people happy. No one voting would be the ultimate statement of no confidence, but until then, I always vote, because if I don't, I don't feel I have the right to complain, lol.

They all lie all the time, but the conservatives in Canada have just removed any semblance of what real democracy is from under our feet. And they did in a 1-2-3 punch all while Sochi is entertaining us. They disgust me. For eg., Contempt for Canada, Cheated in the 2006 Election, Turned Canada's Surplus into Debt, Wants US-style bank deregulation, Opposes universal health care, Harper shut down Parliament. Twice, (sofar) Wants to replace the stable CPP with the untested PRPP, Shut down Women's and Minority advocacy groups, The Economic Action plan has been to the benefit of the super rich, FRAUD, Loosened regulations to allow more chemical residues on your food, Refusal to sign UN declaration designating clean water as a human right, Never kept promises of cutting $1.4 Billion in federal subsidies given to oil companies, Breaking traditions   Jeeze I can't go on, it's all so obvious.

At some point the glass is full or empty. At this point you must decide where you stand, on what values you hold, and then stand. The system is corrupt, totally. For example, those that appose the pipeline from Canada, those Senators and Congressmen, have shares in the opposing companies. That is their bread and butter. Interesting to note they are allowed to do this. Our congress and senate do not hold to the same laws as the average citizen does. I can go to jail for insider trading, but they are exempt. Question is what to do. The only answer I can give is, one person can affect five and five can affect 100 and so on. Get out get motivated and join with others. If the system is corrupt, change it. I fight this everyday. Will I win in my lifetime? I dont know but I do know, I have set in motion the current for change.
Miss. Information

Politics is complete rubbish. Garbage. Trash. Bad government is not my fault. I don't support that system. It's the people who vote - expecting to get democracy out of it - it's their fault. People have been brainwashed to believe they get democracy by electing someone. Voting (as we have it) is actually agreeing to be powerless; to be a serf. And those elected are generally ignorant or stupid or both. Add unethical...what a delightful result. Presto: bozo government.

Use a calculator and figure out what a few hours every four years is, in terms of your tiny slice of democracy. You get about 0.001% of democracy. The reality is, we live in a feudal system, still. But now we get to vote to be serfs. As soon as you vote, you're a serf. You have no say in anything.

We get sham democracy, not true democracy. True democracy would involve voting on issues, only, not for people. Then we'd all be equal (instead of big-shots and serfs), and we'd all have some power all the time. We'd stop being serfs.

That system would be corruption-proof, because without people to bribe...it would be impossible to corrupt it. Majority will would prevail, always. That is not how things work now. Majority in Canada don't want more prisons...doesn't matter. Government jams them up...you know where...anyway.

As it is, our system is a FEW people rule over MILLIONS - which is inherently unfair and given the Internet, an absurdity. In reality, the RICH control everything; not the people elected to public office. The system is a total joke. In the United States, the top 20% own fully 84% of the country. The bottom 80% - the vast majority - own a piddling 16%. The disparity between the rich and poor is growing; getting steadily worse. Faith in elected representatives is at an all-time low. Mine is zero.

The leader system - an archaic pyramid - it used to be the great wise one at the top had thousands of people hauling millions of tons of rock, just to have a place to be buried...we have the same really stupid system today, just slightly updated. But it's still crackerheads at the top. Nobody can tell me that was a sane enterprise.

Wisdom at the top doesn't exist. Who'd care to dispute that? In reality, the majority of those elected are stupid. That system doesn't work. There are innumerable problems with it. For one thing, the people who control everything are above the law. Good luck getting them to respect the Magna Carta; that's been forgotten and urinated on. Politics is a system rife with corruption. Money controls it all. And power, not law. It guarantees corrupt police, corrupt courts, corrupt government. It ensures that even education is mostly brainwashing, so kids are indoctrinated with the belief that our trash system is the best one possible. (Duh.) Our system creates wars endlessly. It's unfair and riddled with unethical conduct. U.S. government has overthrown or tried to overthrow 55 foreign government since WWII. They have often overthrown duly elected people, and supported dictators. That's not belief in democracy. But they say it is. The politics system is fundamentally dishonest. You can't expect any straight lines in that system.

And it's a system that only rarely cares what the majority want. Even if the majority think X, we tend to get Y or Z. U.S. has more people locked up, per capita, than even North Korea. Why is that? Most have committed no violent offence. The examples of the downside...you know many of them yourselves. What's the upside of our system? I can't think of a single good argument in favor of it.

In Canada, MPs do not pledge allegiance to Canada, or Canadians. No; god forbid. The only allegiance they vow is to an old woman in England. Learn enough about the system...it's cheeks bloat WTF time.

Politics is trash. It's the most disgusting garbage. It's responsibe for virtually all the problems that exist. It guarantees there will always be more problems than solutions. If we voted on issues only - never for people - there'd be more solutions than problems. We could get the number of problems falling, and quickly. True democracy (vote on issues) would be leadership by the most intelligent; best ideas win. It would be faster, cheaper...and cynicism and apathy would greatly decline.

Given the Internet, there is no longer any need for "representatives". They don't represent us anyway!

That system is best liar wins; best bullshit artist. And it's a lot like a beauty contest. May as well be. Any brainless bimbo - Sarah Palin, for example: was a dumber woman ever born? - can threaten to be President! One even stupider than George Bush Jr. Why not just elect a not-so-bright budgie with crossed eyes? That system has *DUH* written all over it.

If you vote for people...you are supporting the very thing you complain about! The only proper vote is to decline your vote. Reject that moron system. Take the ballot and hand it back. No; I decline my vote. (It means: I reject our system. It means I would like a little intelligence in government, not just duh, duh, duh....) That is recorded as a declined vote, and the more people who reject the current system, the more chance there will be of having true democracy, instead of the appalling garbage we get.

Our system may as well be government by the Three Stooges; except there are always a lot more than three.

Ron, that is quite a mouthful and I AGREE. I am so sick of our government. I don't vote. I get so sick of listening to them trash each other on TV. I don't know how you feel about Ford, but I am so sick of the Star tracking him down day in and day out. It gets old after a while and I just shut it off.

popularity? trying to be famous? Ford is what I am referring to on your posting.